Remington 700 Police aka 700p

My first bolt action rifle was a Remington 700P and it was a birthday gift from my lovely wife.  However, greed got the best of me and I ended up flipping it to a buddy to raise funds for glass on another rifle.  When I finally got my finances sorted out (and my head sorted out), I wanted to buy it back from my buddy, but he ended up selling it to a friend of his in Alberta.  I was screwed.

I’d confessed to the missus and she never really forgave me for it.  I couldn’t really live with myself either so fast forward several years and I have the 700P back in my hands.  It’s been tweaked a bit by K&S in Edmonton with a threaded barrel and capped with a muzzle brake, and Leupold QRW 2 piece bases but other than that, it’s exactly as I remembered.  

I had a Millett Tactical 6-25x56mm LRS-1 illuminated scope laying around so I threw that on along with a Champion swivel bipod for the photos.  Contrary to my other bolt guns, I’m planning to leave this one alone with little or no modifications. 

I was originally planning to pick up a Savage 10TR 20” barrel for hunting, but the opportunity to get the 700P again came and I couldn’t pass it up.  The Millett is a pretty big piece of glass and I’d like to get something a bit smaller and lighter.  I used to have a Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm LR/T M5 illuminated with the TMR reticle, but I’m not sure I need that much magnification for what I plan to use this rifle for

The muzzle brake is a subtle design, and is similar in appearance to the integrated brake built into the .338 version of the 700P.  I doubt I will be replacing this unit, but we’ll see how it performs first.

I actually have another rifle with an M24 profile barrel and I’m fairly confident there is no way it would fit into this barrel channel.  

Remington guys, any idea which trigger this is?  It actually breaks quite nicely and has clearly been adjusted to have a pretty light pull, approximately 2 ¼ lbs.  According to Remington this is not the X-Mark Pro (XMP) model because it has the ribbed face, rather than the smooth face.:

https://www.remington.com/support/safety-center/remington-model-700-and-model-seven-notice

The pronounced palm swell

Anyway, some specs from the Factory:

·        Barrel: A Heavy parkerized 26" bull-barrel with a 1 in 12 twist

·        Stock: A H-S Precision stock reinforced with Du Pont Kevlar and fiberglass, textured matte black finish with two front sling swivel studs.

·        Bedding: Aluminum bedding block that runs up the entire length of the receiver

·        Chambered in:  .308 Winchester, .223 Remington, .243 Winchester, 7mm Remington Magnum, .300 Winchester Magnum, .300 Remington Ultra Magnum, and .338 Lapua Magnum.

·        Trigger: No clue……Remington experts chime in?  Is it the 40X, the X Mark, or none of the above?

The Model 700P – Police version is available in two versions, the standard 700P with the 26” barrel and 700P Light Tactical Rifle (LTR) with has a 20” fluted barrel with a slightly different HS Precision stock.  It’s difficult to tell with photos from Remington’s website:

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/700p.htm

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/700pltr.htm

According to Remington’s website, the stocks actually look exactly the same, but then again, their photo of a short action and long action also look exactly the same. 

My friend bought an LTR and it arrived the day after mine showed up in the mail and comparing the two side by side, you can clearly see the LRT’s stock is a bit shorter.  The circumference of the fore end on the LTR also smaller as is the palm swell.  I should probably take some of my own comparison pictures sometime to illustrate the point.  Overall, the LTR is lighter and probably less of a headache to hump around in the bush (especially with 6” less barrel) if you decide to hunt with it. 

As some of you may know, I am a huge fan of the chassis system for bolt guns, but there is definitely something attractive of a traditional rifle stock.  The 700P appears to have been influenced by the M24 Sniper Weapon System, but last I heard, those run about $5000-6000 USD if you can find one with complete deployment kits available to the following:

CATEGORY 1 – Active Duty Military Personnel w/ Sniper Qualification
CATEGORY 2 - Active Duty, National Guard, and Reserve Military Personnel 

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1067441-Remington-M24s?p=9993204&viewfull=1#post9993204

That is a pretty awesome piece of history, but getting one of these just isn’t in the cards at the moment.  Another interesting tidbit for those of you who are thinking about using a 700P to build an M24 clone is the stock.  Though they are similar in appearance, the M24 uses the PST-024 HS Precision stock while the 700P uses the PST-011.  The main differences are the enlarged barrel channel to house the M24 barrel (No, it is not the same profile as the heavy varmint profile barrel on the 700P) and the inletting to allow for the Dakota/Sunny Hill bottom metal.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1067441-Remington-M24s?p=9997156&viewfull=1#post9997156

An article from Sniper Central says that these rifles are capable of shooting .5MOA out of the box, though .75MOA is more common.  When I first had my 700P, I didn’t know what I was doing (still don’t) so my first attempt to shoot groups was a dismal failure, even with match ammo.  I didn’t even shoot a proper 5 round group. 

Anyway, I sold the rifle before I had a chance to take her out a second time but I’ve learned a few things here and there since then and have had some pretty good luck with the 10TR so I’m curious how well this rifle shoots.  Looking forward to finding some time to take her out for a spin!

Testing out the new Savage 10TR (and let the 700p tag along)

I got a chance to take the 10TR out for a test drive today, up at PCDHFC.  Not sure if the temperature is important, but it was probably hovering around -1 or so.  The rifle is pretty much as is out of the box except with the addition of a Blackhawk pivot bipod, GRG Magnum Muzzle Brake I got off Amazon.com.

Now the following findings are from a noob shooter, and on top of that, a noob to bolt action rifles and precision shooting.  I barely knew what MOA meant until just two weeks ago.  I'm sure some of you more advanced and experienced shooters could get better results, but these are my results:

First up is the Nosler Custom 168gr:

 At 100 meters, I got a group at 2.66 inches.  I had a feeling that one on the right was a flyer so I let off so I tried another group:

 

 My second group was a lot tighter at 1 inch.  

I tried the Nosler out to 200 meters and shot three 3-round groups, measuring 1.78in, 1.59in, and 1.7in.  This left me with a pretty good feeling.

Next up is the Remington Premier Match 175gr Match King BTHP.  Boy, that's a mouthful.

At 100 meters, it wasn't so hot with a 1.9in grouping.  Again, this is probably the result of user error (me).

I did three more 3-round groups and the results were 1.66in, 2.12in, and 2.19in.  they were all over the place, but maybe I was rushing, maybe I pulled a few shots, who knows. 

When I took the Remington Match Kings out to 200 meters, I was really wondering what I was doing wrong, but I ended up shooting two 3-round groups getting 4.18in and 3.5in.

That was pretty much all of the Nosler and Remington ammo I had with me today, so I decided to test out the Federal Premium 168gr Sierra Match King BTHP Gold Medal Match that I had left over from testing out my 700p.  It didn't do that great in the Remington, so I figure I might as well blast away a 5 round group and see how it did in the Savage.

The results were surprising to me, but then I thought back to all the reviews saying how awesome these were and the surprise faded away.  5 rounds in a 1.7in group at 200 meters.

Next up were some left over Hornady Match 168gr BTHP.  These did okay in my 700p, but I didn't have time to test them out extensively so I'll have to get another box to run through the Remington again.  

 I shot three rounds and got them in a 1.9in group, and then decided to blat off the 5 rounds I had left.  1.65in.  I was in awe.

 I had some good luck with my Savage, and I also had some good luck running some cheap ammo through my 700p a few weeks ago, so I thought I'd just run my 700 a bit.  I pulled out some Federal 150gr soft point blue box.

  At 100 meters with three 3-round groups, I got 0.9in, 1.6in, and 1.52in.  Not great, but not horrendous I suppose.

 When I went out to 200 meters, I started going down with the ship.  I ended up flopping out a 4in group.  I pulled out the few PPU 145gr stuff I had left and tossed that down the 200m mark.

 I may as well have taken the PPU out of the rifle and threw them at the target because 7.7in group is downright embarrassing out of a bolt gun.  Back to the drawing board with the 700.  Maybe it doesn't like cheap ammo after all, or maybe I was just so used to shooting the Savage, I got lazy with the Remington.

I decided to blow through a few rounds at the steel gong at 200 meters.  That made me feel better:

I also took a shot at the gong with my Savage, unfortunately, all I had left were 3 rounds of Federal blue box and I had no idea what the hold over would be in the Savage because I hadn't shot any through it yet, but I wanted to film the Savage in action along with the GRG muzzle brake:

I completely missed the gong on the last two rounds, but oh well, I'm positive I can nail it with Nosler, Hornady or SMKs.  Better luck next time I guess

Experimenting with different ammo

I've been shooting Norinco 7.61x51 out of my Norinco M14, only because it was the cheapest ammo around.  I guess I haven't really considered accuracy from the ammo because I've been busy trying to get my scope to sit straight.  My buddy Roy recently sorted out my scope mount issues and it's finally straight.  So for the first time since I've had my M14, I actually have my scope pointed in the same direction as the round is going, haha!

Anyway, the other day, I took my M14 as well as my new Remington 700P to zero the scopes, as well as break in the new rifle.  I've heard a few different methods on breaking in a new rifle, and to be honest, I've never, ever done this with any of my firearms.  The 700p is probably the most expensive toy in my collection so I decided I'd better do this one properly.  I decided to follow the advice of my buddy Hermes from Reliable Gun, and clean my rifle every three rounds for the first 20 rounds.  I know some people do it every round, some clean for more rounds, some less, but if this method didn't work, I'll learn for next time.

I got a variety of ammo to try out and I'll update how each type did as I get to testing it.  Remember, this review is from someone who's fairly new to shooting, and a bit of a crappy shot.  I did my best to keep my lack of skill out of the variables by shooting off a bench, rifle supported in the front with a bi-pod, loaded forward, and the read butt stock supported with a sandbag, and pulled in as tight into my shoulder as possible, without it affecting trigger squeeze.

2014-01-20 -  I took a variety of ammo to the range today, however the results are a bit skewed.  I shot three rounds per brand at 100m and 200m.  The reason it's skewed is because I repeated some brands a few times, and others only one repetition.   Next time, I'll have to bring some more ammo, and spend more time to do it.

Something else I'll have to take into account, different point of impact for different grain bullets, and which grain to zero my rifle for.  I had it zeroed initially with my 150gr Federal blue box, but when I shot the heavier 168gr SMK and Hornady Match, they were both landing one mildot lower.  Also, I'm not entirely sure, but I had the feeling that my rifle was stabalizing the 150 grain better at times than the 168, but I'll have to shoot more to find out.

Something to think about for my personal reference:

Remington 700P 26" barrel, 1-12" twist
Remington 5R 24" barrel, 1-11.25" twist
Savage 10TR 24" barrel, 1-10" twist.

What it all means, I have no idea at the moment.  I'll update this post after I figure it out.

One thing I learned from today's experience is don't cheap out on a stapler, haha!  My stapler crapped out on me today, and it was pretty crappy running out to the 200m mark and not be able to put up my targets.  Anyway, based on the results today, it looks like

2014-01-08 - Norinco 7.62x51mm  - it's decent ammo for plinking.  It's copper cased, so not re-loadable, and it's pretty dirty, but not corrosive.  I didn't check to see the grouping size at 50 meters, just shot at that range to get it on paper.  I'll have to take it out to the range next time and see how well it does at 100 meters and 200 meters.  At least I got the new Bushnell Elite Tactical 5-15 x 40mm dialed in to the general direction the round is going, haha!

2014-01-20 - Norinco 7.62x51mm
100m - 4.67in
200m - 5.1in/pie-plate

2014-01-08 - PPU 145gr .308 - This is what I used to break in my 700p.  PPU 145gr, made in Serbia.  It was dirt cheap (about $14 for 20 rounds) and that's why I bought it at the time.  At 50 meters, it was dead on accurate and nailed the bullseye no problem.  Stretching out to 100 meters, the grouping spread out to a fist size, and out to 200 meters, the groupings were about a pie plate.  Haha, according to my buddy's, that's a pretty crappy grouping for the Remington 700p.  I'd like to chalk it up to the cheap ammo, but it could just be my incredibly poor skill as a shooter.  Anyway, this first box was about breaking the rifle in, and just getting rounds on paper.  I'll focus on marksmanship and recording the findings more formally the next time.

2014-01-20 - PPU 145gr .308
100m - 3.3in
200m -  1.85in

2014-01-08 - CBC 7.62x51mm, brass cased, made in Brazil.  It looks prettier than the Norc ammo, but I'm not sure if it performs better.  I tried it out at 100 meters and 200 meters, and it was fairly inconsistent.  At 100 meters, it was getting fist size groupings and at 200 it was about the size of a pie plate, just like the PPU.  This ammo was inexpensive as well, probably worked out to around $13 for 20 rounds or so.  I'll try out some better ammo and see if it's my skill or the ammo that got me minute-of-pie plate, haha!

2014-01-20 - CBC 7.62x51mm
100m - 3.13in
200m -  3.3in

2014-01-08 - Federal 150gr .308 - I picked up this ammo from Lever Arms today, I heard that sometimes people have some luck with the cheaper stuff in their 700s (haha, as if I haven't learned better from using cheap ammo a la PPU or CBC).

2014-01-20 - Federal 150gr .308
100m - 1.54in
200m - 2.18in

2014-01-08 - Hornady 168gr .308 Match - bought it when I got my 700p, recommended as decent ammo to zero in my rifle.  I just about shit myself when I saw the price tag of $32.50 for a box of 20.  It was more than double what I used to think was already fancy ammo (the cheap Serbian and Brazillian brass cased stuff from above).

2014-01-20 - Hornady 168gr .308 Match
100m -  1.63in
200m - 1.2in

2014-01-08 - Federal Premium 168gr .308 Sierra Match King.  I've been reading a lot online about this ammo, and supposedly this should get some decent groupings from a good shooter.  We'll see, haha!  At $46.50, it's the most expensive ammo I've bought to date.  I know, I shouldn't whine considering there's far more expensive ammo out there, and nobody said shooting was a cheap hobby.

2014-01-20 - Federal Premium 168gr .308 Sierra Match King
100m - 2.28in
200m -  3.45in

Here's a post I wrote on Canadian Gun Nutz:

Apologies for digging up old threads, but threads like these are real eye-openers for noobs like me. The wifey bought me a 700p for Christmas, and thought I was going to be the international sniper. I’d read a few articles about how this rifle was capable of 1 MOA out of the box so I was pretty excited. By the way, I’m so new, I only recently learned what MOA meant. Just to make sure, it means a 1in group at 100 yards or 2.908cm at 100 meters?).


So I take my new rifle out to the range, and try out one of the many “break-in” methods, and also try to get my scope pointed in the general direction the bullets are going. I try to remove as many variables as possible (ie, shooter error) and try to remember the principles of marksmanship. I put some load on the bipod by applying some pressure forwards as I was taught for machine guns (I know, the 700 is not a machine gun, but the only firearm I had experience with that had a bipod was the C6 and C9). I also rested the stock on a sandbag, and pulled the stock into my shoulder (or was it push my shoulder into the stock?) with as little strain as possible, all while trying to retain a natural body alignment in relation to the rifle.

All this stuff seemed to work with my C7 as I nailed a 69 out of 70 score on my last range test (overconfidence starting to brew here), so I was expecting to get some decent groups with my new bolt gun. To get it to print on the target sheet, I let my first round off at 50 meters. Setting the scope at zero was a little off, but I adjusted the windage and elevation on my Bushnell 6500 4.5-30 x 50mm and my second round was dead centre of the Canada Ammo target sheet I brought with me. I’m starting to get really confident now, but my focus is still on breaking in the rifle properly so spent more time putting patches through the barrel than rounds.

Anyway, I’ve managed a 3 round clover at 50 meters, so in my head, I’m already making plans to apply for the CF Sniper team. I decide to test out my new found sniper skills and direct my attention to the target sheet I had set up at 100 meters. The rounds are landing in a group that’s about the size of a fist. Ok, maybe it’s because the barrel isn’t broken in yet, or maybe it some freak gusts of wind down by the target sheet, or maybe the ammo, it certainly couldn’t be me, the Marksman waiting for his Cross Rifles badge for his DEUs because I shot 69 out of 70 with my C7 (completely ignoring the fact that I just had to hit the target, not necessarily get precision groups).

Well, it’s on paper, and it’s the size of a fist, let’s see how well the rifle does at 200 meters. I get minute- of-pie plate. WTF. At 300 meters, I get better groupings with my C7 (maybe half a pie plate, haha!). Automatically I assume my 700 is flawed. Ego deflated, head hung low, I’m too embarrassed to make eye to eye contact with Collin, the RO at the PCDFHC range, as I try to sneak off the line to go home.

I get home, start looking online and begin to read about ammo. I just discover that the precision rifle aspect of my gun hobby is probably going to cost more than the bottomless money pit I call my AR. Up until now, I’ve been shooting the cheapest ammo I can find. Since my crappy eyes can’t see past 50 meters without magnification, cheap ammo worked out to that range in my AR, and I never had my Norc M14 dialed in properly until recently. Using the cost of the Norc 7.62x51mm as a base, I sourced out my “fancy precision” ammo based on that cost, and dug up PPU 145gr .308 (obviously, I should have done a bit more research before heading off to the range). A few more visits to the LGS and I’m beginning to realize, that $hit ammo could result in poor performance (at least I hoped it was the ammo). So, a 20 round box of PPU can be had for as low as $15, but if I want the performance I’ve been reading about, I could be looking at going as high as $46.50 for Federal Premium .308 Sierra Matchkings. This is going to be an expensive hobby. Now I have to start thinking about getting into reloading and all the rest of it if I don’t want to blow $46.50 for a box of 20.

Well, anyway, that’s been my experience with the reality of precision shooting so far. I’m not sure if spending $46 will tighten up my groups to 1 MOA until the next time I go to the range, but a lot of noobs like me think that just because we get a bolt action rifle with the words Police, or Military or Tactical stamped on the side, throw some glass on it, we’re going to be instant snipers. Not quite the reality. It looks like a steep learning curve, and I’m looking straight up at a skyscraper. But still, it looks like a lot of fun, and I’m looking forward to learning the aspects of precision shooting. Hopefully one day I’ll be able to produce groupings a bit better than I did my first trip out.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/453357-Precision-Shooting-Reality